The following
is an interview between the outstanding journalist John Pilger
and the US Assistant Secretary of State at the time James Rubin.
(Taken from Pilger's book, "The New Rulers of the World"
published 2003).
The interview
dates from November 1999, showing how these facts were in the
public domain long before the Iraq war, yet the lies and propaganda
coming out of Rubin's mouth, discredited here, were still being
used years later. All those 'journalists' and politicians who
continued to spout these lies should be held accountable for their
actions. (Was your MP one? Use 'How
To Hold Your MP To Account' to find out).
James
Rubin: "We (the US) allocate billions of dollars worth of
food and medicine for the Iraqi people". (In fact, the US
gives not one dollar, all humanitarian aid was paid for by the
Iraqi government from oil revenues authorised by the the UN Security
Council)..."American policy is not sanctions per se, but
to deny Saddam's regime the funds they would otherwise have to
rebuild their mad military machine....to build new chemical weapons
capabilities, to build new biological weapons capabilities..."
John
Pilger: "Don't you think it is ironic that for many years
the US helped Saddam obtain these weapons of mass destruction
to use against his neighbours?"
JR:
"No, I don't find it ironic. Iraq's regime is responsible.
The US didn't gas the Kurds..."
JP:
"The seed stock for Saddam's biological weapons was supplied
by the American Type Culture Collection, a company that's just
down the road from here (Washington)."
JR:
"I'm sure they've been prosecuted for it."
JP:
"No, they had Commerce Department approval."
JR:
"To suggest we were sanctioning the sale of chemical weapons
to Iraq is ridiculous."
JP:
"It's true... All the documents are in the Library of Congress."
JR:
"Are you suggesting that this kind of thing was a goal of
the US?"
JP:
"It happened, and I'm only suggesting it's ironic that the
US gave such support to this dictator, and now imposes an embargo
that is causing such suffering not to him, but to the civilian
population."
JR:
"The suffering is not our fault....they have enormous quantities
of food and medicine available. They store it in warehouses; they
don't distribute it."
JP:
"The senior UN Co-ordinator denied this. He said 88% of all
humanitarian supplies were delivered within a week of entering
the country. A report by the head of the UN Office of Iraq in
New York says that 76% of medicines are distributed and the rest
kept as a buffer stock, as directed by the World Health Organisation."..."More
than $73 million in food production supplies for Iraq are currently
blocked in New York by your government. If what you say is true,
why did Kofi Annan, the Secretary-General of the UN, recently
criticise the US for holding up $700 million worth of humanitarian
supplies?"
JR:
"You'll have to ask him." He went on to argue that a
report by Unicef, the UN Children's Fund, proved that where the
Iraqi government was in charge of distribution, it was to blame
for a higher child mortality rate. Pilger pointed out that the
report had stated the opposite. He retorted, "If you'd like
to give a speech we can swop chairs."
JP:
"Why have you misrepresented the Unicef report?"
JR:
"Our analysis is based on a wide variety of sources..."
JP:
"The chief UN official in Iraq, Hans Von Sponeck, has appealed
to the US and Britain to let supplies through. He said, "Don't
fight the battle against Saddam on the backs of the civilian population."
(He later resigned as did his replacement in protest at the actions
of the US and Britain).
JR:
"Mr Von Sponeck is commenting on subjects beyond his competence."
JP:
"He is commenting on the humanitarian situation, and he is
the senior UN humanitarian official on the ground in Iraq."
JR:
"Look...We have to weight our profound sorrow at the tragic
suffering of the people of Iraq against the national security
challenge that Saddam would pose to the world if he weren't checked
by the sanctions regime."
JP:
"Was that choice described summed up by Madeleine Albright,
(US Secretary of State - position Donald Rumsfeld now holds),
when she said that the 'price' of half a million dead children
was 'worth it'."
JR:
"That quote has been seriously taken out of context..."
JP
handed him a transcript of the interview given by Albright, her
words were in context.
JR:
"Well, we don't accept that figure of half a million."
JP:
"It's from the World Health Organisation and backed by Unicef.
JR:
"It's derived from a methodology we don't accept..."
JP:
"Why is the US bombing civilians in Iraq."
JR:
"Our aircraft are there to prevent Saddam from raining hell
down on his own people. If he was not shooting at our aircraft,
we would not need to take out the surface-to-air missile sites."
JP:
"Your aircraft are taking out shepherds, their children and
their sheep. It's in a UN report."
JR:
"That report was based primarily on Iraqi sources, Iraqi
propaganda will do anything to misrepresent what went on..."
JP:
"I went to Iraq to investigate and I found it to be true."
JR:
"Well I don't know the facts...I've spoken to a lot of people...What
you have to understand is that Saddam invaded another country.
It's about Iraq's violation of the basic rule of law. They are
paying the price for that."
JP:
"Who is paying the price?"
JR:
"What you have to understand is that there is a real world
and an ideal world."
JP:
"Is it too idealistic to ask who pays the price in Iraq?
We are not talking about Saddam, but innocents. Was it too idealistic
to ask who paid the price in the Holocaust or East Timor?"
JR:
"Well, the idea of comparing what's going on in Iraq to the
Holocaust, I find personally offensive."
JP:
"It's also known as a holocaust."
JR:
"Well...to compare the (effects of) sanctions with the Holocaust
is an offence to the people who died in the Holocaust."
JP:
"You don't think the deaths of half a million children qualify?"
JR:
"We've gone over that."
OTHER
JOHN PILGER ARTICLES & LINKS:
http://www.johnpilger.com/
John Pilger's Official Website: Hidden Agendas - The Films &
Writings of John Pilger
Http://www.zmag.org/bios/homepage.cfm?authorID=141
John Pilger Znet Homepage
Http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Pilger_John/John_Pilger_page.html
ThirdWorldTraveler.com: John Pilger Books & Articles
Http://www.john-pilger.com/
Unoffical John Pilger Website: Articles & Links
Http://www.greenleft.org.au/back/2003/525/525p24.htm
Why Bush lies about Iraq
Http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/allnews/content_objectid=13434081_method=full
The Big Lie
Http://www.antiwar.com/orig/pilger.php
How to silence an awkward newspaper
Http://www.lewrockwell.com/orig4/pilger1.html
The BBC & Iraq: Myth & Reality
http://observer.guardian.co.uk/waronterrorism/story/0,1373,754973,00.html
The Great Charade
Http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/allnews/page.cfm?objectid=12581179&method=full&siteid=50143
Blair is a coward
Http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/allnews/content_objectid=13320863_method=full_siteid=50143_headline=-NOW%2DWE%2DARE%2DTHE%2DIRAQ%2DEXTREMISTS-name_page.html
We are the Iraq Extremists
Http://www.progressive.org/nov02/intv1102.html
Interview with John Pilger
Http://www.zmag.org/content/showarticle.cfm?SectionID=15&ItemID=5134
John Pilger interview with ABC
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